What You Need to Have in Place Before You Pitch Anyone

In this episode of Hey, Let’s Collab, I’m joined by Heather Ritchie, Hailey Rowe, Leah Rae Getts, Diane Foy, and Cathleen Thomas for a candid conversation about what it really takes to start pitching collaborations. We unpack the foundations that make you collaboration-ready, from getting clear on your offer and audience to creating a simple freebie, staying organized, and pitching in a way that feels aligned and authentic. If pitching has ever felt intimidating or like something you need to be more “ready” for first, this episode will help you simplify the process and take action with more confidence.

Tune in to hear more on:

• What you actually need in place before you start pitching collaborations
• Why clarity around your offer, audience, and values makes collaboration decisions easier
• How to pitch yourself without sounding generic, overthinking every word, or waiting for everything to be perfect
• Why small audiences can still land great collaboration opportunities, especially with an engaged list and the right fit
• How to use simple tools like a freebie, pitch template, collab guide, or spreadsheet to stay organized and ready
• What makes someone look collaboration-ready in a pitch, from doing your research to showing the value you bring

This episode is such a good reminder that collaboration readiness is not about having a massive audience, a perfect business, or every asset polished before you begin. It is about knowing how you help, showing up as yourself, and taking the next aligned step with confidence. Tune in to hear how these five creators approach pitching, collaboration strategy, and building relationships that lead to real growth.

Plus, don’t forget to grab the free collab scripts at heyletscollab.com to start creating your own profitable partnerships and make sure you’re subscribed to you never miss an episode!

Guest Links:
Heather Ritchie
Website: https://writerslifeforyou.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/writerslifeforyou/

Hailey Rowe
Website: https://www.haileyrowe.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hailey_rowe/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/haileyr/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/haileyrowe

Leah Rae Getts
Website: https://digitaltrailblazer.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/leahraegetts/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/leahraegetts/

Diane Foy
Website: https://dianefoy.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dianefoyarts
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dianefoy/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqh4hRvU1xdj07zEj0HRHzA

Cathleen Thomas
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cathleen-thomas-11932318/

Links:
Website: https://heyletscollab.com
Instagram: Hey, Let's Collab (@heyletscollab) • Instagram profile
FREE Collab Scripts: Collab Scripts - Hey, Let's Collab
Collab Starter Kit: https://heyletscollab.com/kit
Blog: Blog - Hey, Let's Collab
YouTube: Hey, Let's Collab
Pinterest: Hey Let's Collab

Transcript

Speaker 3 0:00

Hey, it's Nadalie and welcome to the Hey Let's Collab Podcast. This is a podcast about how successful creators grow through collaboration. Every episode, we unpack one specific partnership from the first pitch to the final result. This gives you the full blueprint on how to collaborate with confidence and grow your business through aligned connections. Ready to get started? You'll love this week's collaboration. Alright, y'all. So you are ready to start collaborating, and something we've talked about is pitching. And I know for myself, the word pitch can feel kind of stressful. Um, I don't know if y'all are baseball fans, but I know the most important job on that field is the pitcher. They make or break the game, and it can feel that way for our own collaborations. So I would like to go around this incredible room and just ask that starting question, what do you need to have in place before you pitch anyone? Let's start with Heather.

Speaker 5 1:11

Okay, well, first of all, I would say, judging by what we were talking about before we came on stage, is that you really want to start looking at some type of a freebie, or if you're writing blog posts so that you can guess post or topic ideas that you can even use to pitch. And we all know that there's bundles, summits, podcast interviews, all of that. And I would say set up a document that has your like who your audience is, what you do, you know, any of the basics that you can have on hand because I have found having something like that, like I have a brand book, really helps me like be ready to go and have all the information I need.

Speaker 3 1:54

Love that. Diane, what about you?

Speaker 1:57

So I've built my whole method around this because I come from 20 years as a publicist and everyone jumps to the visibility, everyone jumps to marketing and pitching and all that visibility stuff. But most of you are not ready. Some guys I feel like I'm not ready. But I my whole motto is inner work branding, visibility in that order. So I feel like you have to do some deep inner work and really figure out who you are, what you want, why you want it. And then you have that confidence when you are putting yourself forward and pitching. That you and also have a clear idea of what you're pitching and why, and being the the ex is it the right collaboration for you. I could go on forever.

Speaker 3 2:53

We got time. We don't go forever, but we got time. We are gonna dive deeper into everything you shared with us, but let's let's get the tidbits first. Anyone else wants to hop in?

Speaker 2 3:04

I can I can definitely add to that. I think but everything that Heather and Diane said, yes. However, I think if we think back to the beginning stages, you need to have a really clear idea of who exactly it is you help, who you don't help, um, and what it is you're truly, what's the transformation you're helping people to achieve? Because as a podcast host, I have people on my podcast where they apply to be on our podcast, and oftentimes this is really mucky still and really unclear. In order to choose a collaboration that's actually going to serve your business, you need all of this clear. Because I get pitched collaborations all the time because I have a big email list and a big audience, and so people will pitch me, and it's, you know, as a Christian, I don't I don't promote a lot of like woo-woo things that don't really align with my values. And so I've had people who've pitched me to be on pod uh on summits or things, and when I'm asking who the audience is, it's a lot of like mystic healers and stuff that I'm is they're not my people. They're just not my people. So I know who my people are and I know who my people aren't. And so I can focus my energy on collaborations that will actually grow my business because I would rather reach a smaller number of really targeted people than a broader number who are never going to be my folks, right? So truly understanding who it is you help, who you don't want to work with, uh, and what is that transformation you're helping them achieve will help you choose the right collaborations to begin with. Wow.

Speaker 1 4:42

Yeah, I I'd love to add something to that because that is such a great point. You have to know who you serve, but I have to add the caveat because I work with a lot of perfectionists and I find that they wait to pitch any collaboration forever. So I think what you need is exactly who you work with, what you can somewhere you can send people after the collab. So if it is a freebie, great. But if you're not, if you don't have it yet, it could be, you know, follow my Instagram account or starting to get traffic on some, you know, website or wherever you want to connect with people. It would be better if you had a way to capture emails. But somewhere to send people who compliments what you do. So it's it's one thing to collaborate with somebody who offers the same service as you that might not be the best fit, but someone who compliments what you do and then has the audience that has not just, as as Leah was saying, like maybe not just the need that you provide, but same values, similar values. So those would be the things I think you need to get started. And I think you have to also remember that sometimes you're gonna still be creating these assets as you go and refining them, and that is totally okay. You're gonna write a bio for and it and sometimes it's good to have that pressure, like, oh, I gotta make a bio for this podcast by Tuesday, and then you actually do it. So that's my only thing I want to add is don't wait forever.

Speaker 3 6:08

Yeah, it doesn't have to be perfect, right? Like the pitch, and I feel like in many ways, if we think about what we do, who we serve, that kind of is our pitch. Like, I think like who my audience is, how I show up for them is in a way my pitch. And like I think that does get refined over time. And it's okay if the first draft isn't quite on point. We get clearer on who our audience is as we go along, and you don't need to wait till you're like, you know, the psychographics and the demographics, and like that it's like women aged 29 to 39 who live in Louisiana, like and have three children and a dog. Like, you don't need to know that level of detail in order to get started. What about you, Kathleen?

Speaker 4 7:02

Well, I love all the answers. The only thing I would add is um making sure your foundation is set up. Um I've done collaborations where I wasn't all my stuff wasn't set up, and it's just, you know, a waste of their time and my time, and I hate that for them because I am a perfectionist, um, a recovering perfectionist. So uh, but yeah, making sure the foundation is there, your email system is set up, even if it's something simple, it doesn't have to be a complex one. I've done the complex one currently in a complex one. But I the lighter ones, it works just as well and just have the basics set up.

Speaker 3 7:42

Yeah. And if y'all are listening and you're like, I don't know what the basics are, I don't know what an email system is, I don't have a freebie. You want to subscribe and keep listening to this podcast, because I've got dedicated episodes on all of that. Heather, you want to say something?

Speaker 5 8:00

Yeah, it's one of those things where two, I want to piggyback off of all that. I think when we're first starting, we're really afraid to be ourselves. And when you're afraid to be yourself, you're more like a watered-down version of you. So you also have to remember to lean into who you are because and again, know that the person you're pitching is right for you, kind of like Leah said, because you don't want to completely, it's a waste of time if you're pitching to somebody who your values and stuff don't match. But also part of the pitch is being you and how you present things, teach, and do things. So keep that in mind as well, because I just know we're kind of afraid to do that when we start. I think we've all been there. And then when you're you, you get the right people to you and you repel those that are just not the right people.

Speaker 3 8:47

I feel like, yeah, like before we hit record, I was like, Kathleen, I know you just met me, and I apologize that you hopped on this call and I was I was at like a hundred percent me. And um, anyone who's collaborated with me and gets my daily emails know that I can be a little unhinged, but I've decided recently that there's no point in me sending a newsletter, posting anything, showing up anywhere if I am not just gonna be a hundred percent. And like if anyone hears your voice, knows who you are, and is repelled by that, then they're not your person. Y'all go. Like, nobody is holding you hostage, right? Hit unsubscribe. Like, save me the 10 cents. Like, it's all good.

Speaker 9:35

It really is all good. That takes a long time to come to that place. And I know it's taken me decades to finally be there, but I feel like when I was younger and wasn't comfortable being seen and wanting approval, and you don't want to get rejected, so that you do have that perfectionist thing, but also what you put out there tends to you know be like everything else, be very generic, not really have an opinion, not really be different from anyone else, so then you're not really showing up true, and then you get you can't really make a connection with anyone. Everyone might like you, but to go deeper. So, yes, the more you can just be yourself and like to to add on to the pitching part of knowing who you are and what you're pitching, what your audience is, is I know as a podcaster, I would much rather a pitch that is a little bit messy, but is the right fit. That you've done enough research that you know this podcast, this audience, this expert is in line with what you're working towards. Because yes, we get lots of pitches that are I even have a first line in the description and in the yeah, the description area that my public podcast is not creating new episodes. So why am I still getting that shit? They're like, you'll make an exception for me. Well, I might invite you to a private podcast if it's aligned, but almost never it is, you know. Um yeah, so just make sure like the values comes in. Know your core values, know and do a little bit of research to see if it is aligned because someone might have the same you know job title as you and do what you do, but it could be for a completely different audience, and it could be very different beliefs and messages, and that's a m disconnect too.

Speaker 3 11:59

Yeah, I would also love to add that with pitches, I feel like we fear rejection so much, but oftentimes I would say no one's gonna take the time to say no unless you like follow up ten times, right? The rejection is so soft, it's just a non-response, right? And I feel like that's the safest way to to ex to reach out, knowing that it's it's not even gonna be a no. Like odds are like 99.99% of the time, it's just gonna be a silence. And I can take that. And it's very frustrating. I it's frustrating, but also I think it's better than having you know this feeling that, oh, I'm gonna send this and someone's gonna hit reply and they're gonna say no in all caps, and like, where'd you get my details? Like, it's not going to be hostile like that. And yeah, I just I feel like maybe I've just got to a level of comfort with this. I did, I do have a you know, a diploma in PR. I worked at a PR agency. I've sent a lot of emails to a lot of big and scary places, but I've just always remembered like it's just usually just silence. So I don't know if anyone has anything to add to that, you know, to give people confidence.

Speaker 1 13:18

When it comes to rejection, I would much rather be rejected by someone for doing something and trying something than just upfront rejecting myself and not making the ask. You're in no, you're actually in a better position because you probably learned something like, oh, I did this many pitches, I got this many. Yes, it's like you're gathering data moving forward compared to just rejecting yourself and your business and not doing anything. And I find we have so like we are so lucky in the online space because from the comfort of the pool or our house, or even like sitting in a waiting room, we can send collab pitches versus growing up, I used to do um singing and acting auditions. And I would have to go drive to the city, which is not close to my house, go do a five-minute audition, never hear anything ever again if I didn't get it, maybe hear a no, maybe hear a, you know, you got a callback. But it was so much like effort that it made me realize like we have it so good in the online space. So just reminding yourself of that and that you can be in your safe little bubble at your house doing pitches, and it's okay if they say no.

Speaker 2 14:34

Yeah. And I just to add to that, you touched on it a little bit, Haley. And I think it's important to emphasize, I was just coaching a client on this yesterday, tracking your numbers. So put it together a basic spreadsheet. Like today, I reached out to three people, right? Or and just have tallies. It you don't need a bunch of a bunch of crazy stuff, but you kind of want to get to the point where you have some averages, where you know, hey, if I've made X amount of pitches, that's actually equating to, you know, two collabs or whatever that is, so that you start to understand your numbers so you can scale up, scale down, and you're just really empowered. So you mentioned it briefly. So it's like, let's let's make sure people caught that part. Just track it. Track how many pitches you're doing and how many actually are creating some fruit for you. So that's all.

Speaker 15:21

Yeah, I'll add to that is uh the mistake I see most people when they're pitching podcasts or media is they, you know, spray and pray, they just throw, you know, a hundred pitches out there and something might come back. And that's where the research comes in. Because if you take the time to really craft your pitch, craft your topics, what are your themes, what do you want to be known for, and you have something to offer that person's audience and know what that is, and take the time to get to know the person you're pitching, follow them on socials, see uh you know, subscribe to their email list, subscribe to their podcast, listen, and take your time to really pick the right collaborations and the right outlets, and so that maybe you're only gonna pitch 10, but you might get like three or four of them. Well, that's my average, but like I do that for a living. So, but still, if you got one out of ten, that's way better than one out of a hundred. For sure.

Speaker 3 16:37

Diane, can you tell us a little bit about yourself? Who are you? Who's this this expertise? Let us know.

Speaker 16:43

Well, I am a multi-passionate creative and I've changed careers a lot. I started out as a photographer, I was a makeup artist, did some journalism, 20 years in arts and entertainment publicity. And through all that, I realized that most I saw how most people skip to the okay, even when I started coaching, okay, teach me all that PR and marketing. It's like you don't know what you're marketing yet. Pause. And now I fully embrace the pause. So people come to me for the PR marketing, but we barely get there because there's so much work to do before that. And yeah, that's just me. I'm a personal branding and visibility coach for artists, creatives, and multi-passionates.

Speaker 3 17:36

Um that's amazing. So, speaking of all that hard work we need to do before we prepare, I would love to know what do y'all think we need to have in place really and truly before we start pitching? Like, we have talked about a lot of things like having clarity, knowing who you are, showing up in your own voice, knowing who your audience is, having a freebie, yes, yes, yes. But what would you say is that first step? Like, can we build somebody who's listening to this episode a little bit of a plan so that when this episode is over, they know exactly what they need to do and they feel super prepared. So if we go all the way back to the beginning, what would you say if anyone wants to hop in? That first step is, and even if you said it before, let's just put a pin in it. So everyone who's listening is like, okay, I gotta do that thing. And I would just say, like, for me, it's knowing what you offer, and that's super tied to who you help. So I would just say, like, get some clarity on that, having that just like, even if for now it's just that one sentence. I'm a, I help do what? Like, simple, you know. Um, if anyone else wants to run with that.

Speaker 2 18:56

Yeah, I actually have so my little freebie with this actually goes with that. And it's it's creating the automated lead gen system, right? Like, how do you actually set this up? But you start with what you're saying, Natalie, where it's it's what's that offer? And then you always work backwards, like in business, in marketing, everything, you work backwards. So you know your offer and who it's for, and they're gonna work backwards to what's a great freebie you can give away that's juicy enough that people truly, truly want it and will be willing to give you their contact information for. And then you work backwards again. And what kind of topics can you talk about that will naturally lead people, make sense that they want that freebie that's gonna lead them to that paid offer? And so you can just do a really simple kind of map it out process, but starting with that end in mind and working your way forward.

Speaker 5 19:45

Leah, I love that you mentioned that because I feel like so many people kind of start with the freebie, and that's what I did when I started. And so now I just automatically I'm like, oh, I have this offer and it's gonna be in like a summit or a bundle. What can I do for the freebie? And I will say, I teach AI systems. I'm not saying give everything to AI because you have to be the human in your business. But if you get stuck on that idea, you can be like, you know, this is a digital product I want to create. Can you think of some freebie ideas? And just ask Claude or Chat GBT because then it'll spin ideas for you and help with that whole process.

Speaker 1 20:24

Yeah, I love the idea of using AI to help you. There's kind of three things that I work on with clients to get them ready to do collabs. And one of them is something I call a leads finder list, which is basically make a list of, and first you need to know, you know, do I want to be on podcasts? Do I want to go guest speak for people's programs, whatever it is, but you need to have some ideas of who you want to even pitch to. You've got to do some research. So you can have a spreadsheet or however you want to do this and make different tabs. And maybe there's podcasts, maybe there's Facebook groups you want to collaborate with, maybe there's um, you know, leaders who you want to speak at their events or something like that. So taking a little time to maybe find five partners you want to pitch and for what. And then another great thing that's gonna save you a lot of time is putting together some kind of pitch template that you can customize for each person, but an outline for you to kind of generally follow so that you get to the point, you share what kind of collab you want to do, you share the value you provide or who you serve. So that would be a really good thing to have and just work off of. And then the last thing would be this one's not essential, but it's really gonna probably save you a lot of time, which is a collab guide that has your bio, maybe key titles or topics that you could talk about, maybe your freebies or um any, you know, already ready to go things you could offer to people's audience. How different, like I give a little bit of Options of how we can collaborate. And sometimes that saves a lot of time because what's going to start to happen is you're going to get asked to be like, okay, let's have a collab chat. And if you're not careful, that can take up your entire week. So you're going to want to go in, like, yes, let's like review and let's kind of maybe plan the next steps on this call so we can get this done, as opposed to so many steps. Um, so having that guide of kind of like my bio, my titles that I could talk about, who I serve, ways we could collaborate, let's talk about it on the call. That can help a lot.

Speaker 3 22:38

I would say that for sure, if you are farther along on this journey, your schedule would 100% get filled up with calls. But I also do think there is some value in the beginning getting on a collab call, especially if the person you're chatting with is farther along than you and you're not quite sure what type of collaborations you should be doing. Do you know what I mean? And like, for example, Oh yeah, you can brainstorm.

Speaker 1 23:06

Yeah.

Speaker 3 23:07

It's almost like a little bit of coaching, right? Especially if they are farther along and you're pitching someone who's a little bit ahead of time. Um, but yeah, I do love this being prepared. So in case nobody's taken notes, we've talked about knowing your offer, brainstorming some freebies, creating that spreadsheet that is gonna help you to stay organized. And Haley had this great idea of having that guide, almost like your dossier, your little doc. It can be a Google doc, that just you have all these points together. I am a huge fan of organization. It just saves your brain time and you time because you don't have to go look for things. You always know where the information is. Um, does anyone else have anything to add? What are those beginning steps? Yeah, Diane.

Speaker 23:56

I think um another point is when you're just starting out, start small. Like, I think a lot of people jump to the most famous media outlet, the most famous podcast, and you gotta work up to that. And so I think if if I'm coaching someone on, okay, you want to pitch podcasts, like make a list of like say three different levels, you know, the dream ones that that could work for collaborators too, the dream collaborators, the dream podcasts you want to be on, then the middle ground, and then the the ones that you think are gonna just be an easy yes. And maybe you start there because that will build your confidence, and also you don't want to go from not really being on something to a huge platform because being on those smaller podcasts or smaller summits, smaller things, you practice telling your stories, you practice giving your advice and and answering questions, and that's a skill on its own. So the more you do that, the better. Start small, and also when you're picking, like for collaborators, like pick people that are at your level, a little above, and then maybe you could all grow together and always cross-promo as you grow together, and then you're more uh likely to get those bigger ones because you have some proof, you know? It's easier to pot pitch a bigger podcast when you can say, These are some podcasts that I've been on lately. They don't care if they've heard of those podcasts or not, they just care that, oh, okay, you're you've you're doing this, you're you have experience, and they can actually go listen to you on the podcast if they really want to be sure. So that's my little bit.

Speaker 4 26:03

Kathleen touched on this earlier about picking people who aren't in competition with you or aren't doing the exact same thing as you, but people who compliment you, people whose message is something where you are not a you are the next best piece. And so you come across as, you know, a fresh piece of information, you come across as fresh wind. Um another thing I s always suggest is um consider your capacity because a lot of us, you know, especially nowadays, sandwich generation, our capacity is and um you know you don't want to make a hundred pitches and you only have capacity to do two. And then what if what if they all come in? Gonna look a little silly. You don't want people canceling on you or ghosting you, or you ghosting anybody else. So consider your capacity.

Speaker 3 27:04

Especially when you're starting out. I think like we have this feeling of like, oh, I should have all of this done already. Like, I'm behind. Y'all are not behind. I think we just gotta like take it piece by piece by piece, and I think like sometimes I harp on AI, but Claude, Claude can do the work. Like, I don't know how else to say it. And you can use a free account. Um, you don't need to pay anything. So I think it's okay to give yourself like pause, like Diane said. Give yourself the space to prepare and like just give yourself some lead time. And we don't need to send out a hundred pictures at once. Sending out your first one, that might be a whole day's work if we're being honest, but just trust that you will get faster and that your capacity will grow. Something that feels super scary the first time is not going to feel scary a week or two or three weeks from now. Um, does anyone have anything else to add? Bit of encouragement here. All right.

Speaker 1 28:15

Um I will I just want to add, um, if you do run into the issue of people saying yes, which is kind of a good problem to have, book out your collabs. You don't have to do all of them in one week, right? It could be like, let's revisit this in August and we'll touch base in July. And so don't worry, like you can space them out, you can plan your collab calendar. So take a deep breath and like rest assured you can do that.

Speaker 3 28:43

I love that you mentioned that, Haley, because Real Talks, if someone is at a certain level, they're already booked out and they are most likely booking far ahead. So that's a really great, you know, point about having like, even if you get a bunch of yeses today, it doesn't necessarily mean that it's going to happen today. And I think it's okay to have boundaries, it's okay to push back, it's okay to say, like, hey, I'm super busy right now. Just be real and just be honest. Can we do this in a couple months? Like somebody's been wanting me to come on their podcast, and I'm like, listen, I don't even have the brain space right now. Can you just email me in a month? Right. And if they want to, if they want to work with you, they will get back to you. And yeah, I just I think we should not be afraid to be honest about what our limits, like what we can handle, because we're just we're just humans trying to try to make it work, right? So I would love uh to hear your take on this question of can you collaborate successfully with a very small audience, or if you have any advice for someone who's just starting out, where do we begin?

Speaker 30:02

I can take that. Um so if you're just starting out with podcasts pitching, you don't need to have a lot, especially if you're pitching like newer podcasts, and there's a lot of podcasts out there that just need guests, you know? And just go get the experience of doing it. For a lot of times they don't really in some cases they won't care about your audience, but as you grow, then the more people care. And so that is something to think of too. Do you have what are you offering? So maybe when I was starting out and I didn't have a big email list, but people would come to me and ask me, do you want to be on this summit? And then they'd be like, Oh, you don't have you have such a small email list. But if you have at the time I had a public podcast, so that was my way of you know what, my list is small. I don't have a lot to offer in that way, but I'd be happy to have you on my podcast. So if you that's the benefit of creating your own stage, creating your own YouTube show, creating your own summit, creating your own bundle. Like if you're that's a perfect way to start your list is to create your own bundle or summit or something, and the people that are joining it, they probably won't care that you don't have a list yet, but you're inviting all these people who do have a list, and they all and all their people join for your opt-in for this whatever it is you created, that's a great way to start your list. But it's not all there's a lot of collaborations that are not insisting on having thousands and thousands of people on their lists. There are lots of great opportunities for a small list.

Speaker 3 32:12

I would just quickly say, like, the analogy that came to my mind is like when you're in high school, you're working for that high school diploma, but trust me, ain't nobody asking if you graduated from high school. Yeah. And I think a lot of the time, like an email list size, especially when it comes to podcasts or even just showing up in someone else's community, they don't necessarily care how many subscribers or followers you have. They care about your expertise. They care about how you can serve their audience. So don't get all wrapped up in your head about like, my audience isn't big enough, right? Like it's fine, it's gonna grow. That's the best news, right? Kathleen, you wanted to say something?

Speaker 4 32:55

I was gonna suggest um list swaps, email swaps is a good way to get started. Um, like you said, if your expertise is excellent and on point, you know, if that lead magnet is uh well written, uh, that is a good way to get in the door with various people because not all of us love to do emails each week. Um and you said you do it every day. I'm just hats off to you.

Speaker 3 33:20

Um, just for the summit. Sorry, just for sorry, not the summit, just for the bundle. Like if I'm doing a live launch with other people, I I do think we should be in communication because I have this thing about like I feel like I'm in a lot of bundles and summits, but rarely do I ever hear like what's happening. And I'm like, I think you, I I have this, I believe that you make it the event in their calendar by showing up in their inbox every day. Because we do get overcommitted and we do get overstretched, and like one launch rolls into another launch, rolls into another launch, right? Like I just had my bundle, Heather's having her bundle now, and it just gets lost. So I don't say I don't have a daily email list reaching, it's just for you know, uh events. Heather?

Speaker 5 34:11

I I actually do email my list daily, which I'm not everybody does that, but I've gotten my people used to doing that. And with bundles and summits, because that's where my expertise lies mostly, I I do have to say, if you can host your own with not a big audience, and if you are the host, you do need to be in communication. And then even if you're there are a lot of bundles and summits out there that they have like a zero email list requirement. Or with my bundle, I had some people that didn't have a big email list, but they had like a ginorm, I think somebody had like 20,000 people on their social media. And rather than saying no, because you didn't meet the requirements, like people will work with you if you have something like that podcast or something like that, some way to get in front of people. But Haley and I've done freebie swaps and um offer swaps, and those are some of the funnest ways to just get out there. And if you have adjacent, like Haley and I are in direct competition, and there's plenty for both of us, even if we were, but our audiences are very adjacent to each other. We have very similar audiences, so just keep all of that in mind, like communication is everything, and then making sure that you are following through with what you say you're gonna do too. That's kind of what I was gonna say, dude. Because if you're if you say you're gonna email twice in a bundle and you don't, now we just talk about that earlier, like you gotta do it. So that's one way to not get invited back. So make sure that you always follow up on promotion requirements and things like that. Make sure you follow through.

Speaker 35:46

Okay, one more thing about the size of lists is that running my own, like these uh small audio summits that I do, and I've learned that those people with the 10,000, 20,000 people on their email list, sometimes the person with 400 people on their list sends more opt-ins than that 20,000 person. Because that 20,000 person is involved with a lot of events and their promotion is like, here's five summits happening, and here's you know, and so it's a lot. So it also depends on how engaged people are with their list. So when you're starting out, just make sure you're always engaging with your your audience and really treat those email subscribers like gold and always, you know, encourage responses and and and look at your open rate and your click rate. Sometimes that is more important than the actual number of how many people are on your list.

Speaker 3 37:02

I love that you mentioned that because I just hosted my bundle and I will say that someone, like there's a person in the top five, and she is probably in the five smallest audiences. So she is in the top five for signups, and her list size is one of the smallest. And I didn't have a requirement for list size because I I do think that there's a nice balance that happens when I do have my heavy hitters in there, but also it's just such a great opportunity for someone who is just starting out. So, you know, it's it's a balancing act. Haley, you were saying something, sorry.

Speaker 1 37:47

Yeah, no, no, this is all good stuff. I wanted to add though, if you are worried about having a small audience and having a small email list, you don't even have to, you know, we're talking a lot about bundles and summits, but you could go in your community and do a local collaboration. In you could first of all, you could go to networking groups. That's a way you can meet collab partners. Or let's say you're like a health coach and there's an acupuncturist in your area. Why don't you guys do a workshop together or do a social media shout out? Or even if you're like bare bones, I'm just starting out. One thing you could do is just say, hey, you know, let's be referral partners. I'm offering a free mini session this month about blah, blah, blah. Do you know like one or two people who might want to do this? And that can be your starting point. And the other thing I'll say, because I've collaborated with a lot of people on this panel who I love because you guys make it so easy for us. You give us, here is exactly what to do. Here is your copy, here is your link, right? And so one thing you can do that's a um an angle if you don't have a big audience is you can make it easy for your partner. So you can tell your partner, hey, I'll make the graphics for this, or I'll, you know, I'll do the scheduling or whatever it is that could be helpful to them and make it easy for them. That can be your angle if you're like worried that, oh, they're not gonna want to collaborate with me because I have this small audience and tying it back to how is this gonna help their audience and make them look good? So even if you have a small audience, you're still gonna hopefully with this collab bring a lot of value to their audience and focus on that if you can't necessarily focus on I have a gigantic audience.

Speaker 5 39:31

I would take a smaller, engaged audience over a gigantic one that is just kind of there any day.

Speaker 3 39:37

100%. Yeah, it's so true. Haley, I feel like this is a great moment for you to tell everyone who's listening a little bit about yourself.

Speaker 1 39:47

Sure. Yes. So I'm a marketing and sales strategist and coach. My clients call me the Mary Poppins of Business Resources because I have something for everything. And uh I work a lot with beginners, so a lot of wellness professionals, life coaches, people in the online service um space. And that is a little bit about what I do. And I host a podcast called Health Coach Nation, which is business tips for coaches. I love that. I love that.

Speaker 3 40:12

So everyone here is has got amazing advice for you if you are just getting started. And I think I love I love the just getting started phase. Honestly, I'm like, it's just so precious. And I think you are, it's like you're you just have um just a high percentage of who you are. Like you haven't been like watered down yet. You haven't felt the need to sound more like this person or like that person, you know? So I think that's a little bit of a superpower, you know?

Speaker 40:46

Yeah. Anyone else still feel like a beginner? Oh, yeah, there's always more all the time.

Speaker 3 40:51

Because you're first podcast.

Speaker 40:54

Yeah, everyone's always striving for something more, and so like even just you're established, but you're learning AI, you're learning all that it can do, and well, yes, you're you're a beginner there, and that's I love that learning new things and just diving in. So I think that'll never go away.

Speaker 5 41:18

No, and I agree, and 100%. I will tell you right now, I said I was never gonna be on video, which clearly I'm on video almost every day, and I'm here with you guys. So I just want to tell you to jump in and don't be too afraid of what people think. I am known for I make mistakes, I'm goofy, I don't wear makeup, you know, I I show up as me, and people tend to really like that because they're like, oh, you made me feel much better about being me being me and not perfect. And that is it. We will you actually will relate really well to people, and it really depends on who your audience is, too, and if it's more professional or whatever, but yeah, just don't be afraid to get out there and try the visibility stuff, or not even that, like just the beginning where you're like, get on video somewhere or do some little simple things, get on YouTube, do an Instagram reel or something. Just don't be afraid to get out there and tackle it.

Speaker 3 42:14

Heather, tell us a little bit about you since we you're talking about us. Yeah, tell us about you. Where can they see you as you, your real self?

Speaker 5 42:24

So my email list is where it's happening. I'm not on social media a lot because that's just not really my thing as much. But um, I'm Heather Ritchie and I am a certified content marketing strategist and AI systems architect. And so I really help women, female solopreneurs, build businesses that keep their business businessing when life is lifing, because we all know how that is. So I do a lot with systems and AI.

Speaker 3 42:49

I love that. Yes, yes, go connect, y'all. Does anyone else have anything to add about this? Because I have one question that I would love to squeeze in here. What makes someone look collaboration ready to you? Like Leah, I want to hear from you on this one. If someone pops into your inbox, more messages in your awesome Facebook group, what makes you say yes, yes to them?

Speaker 2 43:15

Yeah, a few things. So if someone's reaching out to me for a collaboration, their mess honestly, it's it really begins or can die at their message, right? What is that message? Because someone who who's gonna get my attention understands. I mean, here on this panel, we're all marketers. We always know the the whiff'em or whatever it is, right? What's in it for them? When you're talking to someone and you want something, you don't just pitch what you want. Hey, I want to promote my new book. And that means nothing to me. What does that mean to me? That means nothing, right? Versus what's in it for them. How can you serve that person? How can you benefit them and their audience? That's going to be important. So if someone says, hey, I checked out this specific podcast that you own, I think they would love this topic that I could that I could share with them. I think it'd be really beneficial. And like icing on the cake, if they really get my attention, I have a such and such list or such and such a social media following, or I'm in a uh a networking group, or I something. And I'm I am very happy to promote the episode once this goes live. Oh, ding ding ding. You just like checked all my boxes. I'm I we're gonna meet, we're gonna see if we can come up with an option here. So whenever you can, you know, it's the with them. What's in it for them? Share with them, get their attention because the like we've got a huge list. We've got like 46,000 people or 49 or something on our list. Like we got a lot of people, we have a lot on our social media, we have a lot of followers on our podcast. So we get pitches all the time. And I hate the chat GPT put pitches. I I can tell them from a mile away, and the like, no, like what is it? What are you bringing to the table? Right? How are you gonna serve? That's that's really the end I'll be offered folks. Love that.

Speaker 3 45:18

Circle right back to what is your offer? Who do you help? How can you help this person you are reaching out to collaborate? Is not all about you. It is all about them. Okay, Leah, can you tell us about you?

Speaker 2 45:35

Yes. So I am the co-owner, co-founder of Digital Trailblazer with my husband Todd, and we help make marketing easier, putting together amazing messaging systems and traffic to help you grow and scale. We have a whole we own uh and run a whole network of podcasts where we get to share everything from some specifically on marketing and lean into our expertise in what we do, but also into different areas, um, helping people to shine and to share their expertise in what they do. So we love the idea of collaborations. We've been able to make so many great connections. I've gotten in-person speaking opportunities, tons of summit opportunities, tons of all kinds of things because we are always making those connections to um, you know, by providing a stage, right? For getting people by giving them some uh what they want, right? And getting them the audience and the attention and and all the stuff that folks are looking for.

Speaker 3 46:32

Yes, and you're so great at it. Thinking, yay! Kathleen, do you have anything to add to this? Like, what makes someone look collaboration ready? And before you answer, I something that came to mind is like, yes, there's the looking collaboration ready. And I think by looking ready, we also feel ready. It's almost like, you know, you're going out. You are gonna feel more ready when you have on a fit, as opposed to if you're wearing your pajamas, right? You just bring different energy. And I do think like I do think like the looking ready allows you to punch above your weight. And like you don't need 10,000 plus email subscribers to show up, to shine, to help someone, to be a valuable partner to someone else, and also to grow your own audience, right? I don't think that's a requirement. And I do think like a huge way that you can look ready is just how you present yourself in terms of like the words, especially the words you use in that pitch, because that pitch is your hello. That pitch is your first impression. So why would you just take chat GPT's words when you have the words yourself? And I do think, yes, we've talked a lot about the power of AI and how it can help you, but I think there are many ways that it can also hurt you. And the way that it's hurting you, I think is like people no longer feel confident enough in their own words, right? Like I know someone who writes a lot of journalists, like she's she's a paid writer for a lot of big platforms and she's always trying to get quotes. And she said, I keep getting Chat GPT responses because people no longer feel confident enough to just speak as themselves, right? Like it's almost like imagine my mouth is moving, but like the voice coming out of it is like, I am Natalie. Would you like to collaborate with me? Like, hello, come on. It's it's ridiculous, but that's what we're doing. So let people hear your voice. That's all I gotta say. Kathleen, I'm gonna stop talking now.

Speaker 4 48:52

I think the thing that would that jumps out to me is organization. My time is minimal. And so making sure that they're organized enough to follow through on what they say they're going to do and what I'm supposed to do is crucial. Um, I've asked people for stuff, and you know, if you get it to me in a timely manner, and and trust me, I'm not real b I'm not I'm not the best on time myself. So I'm going to give you, I always say, don't ever apologize to me if you're late it with life. I mean, if life is lifing, don't ever apologize to me getting back to me. We're all lifing. I mean, life is just doing its thing right now. So I don't expect that. But you know, um, if I go to your forum and then your your link doesn't work, I mean that's just a huge red flag for me. So organization, uh, and like you said, authenticity is very crucial for me. I do I do a little bit of swipe copy for my own things um so that my members can promote them themselves. So um I use the AI, but then I try and tweak it for what I want it to say. And then I always encourage them to tweak it themselves to, you know, match your voice. So Yeah.

Speaker 3 50:21

Kathleen, could you also just take this moment to tell us a little bit about yourself? Just a little quick intro.

Speaker 4 50:28

How Kathleen. Um, I am when you asked about if you're a beginner at anything, I'm feeling like a beginner because um the business I ran for like 10 years um I shut down in January. And I'm now focusing on my directory, Kingdompreneur Directory, and it is sort of set up to help those of us who life is lifeing. Um, Christian entrepreneurs to be found one way, one thing, and then also make it easier for us to collaborate behind the scenes. When you're asleep, somebody can be looking at your stuff and you know, just make it easier for all of us to shine, thrive, and do what we were put on earth for.

Speaker 3 51:14

Allah. Heather, you were gonna say something.

Speaker 5 51:17

I have a lot of chronic illnesses, and so some of the medications I do give me brain fog. And so one thing with AI, and I know again, I'm like what all of you guys are saying, like you really you can't just copy and paste with Chat GPT or Claude, even Claude and Chat GPT, they I've trained them really well and they know my voice and they write really good emails, but I still edit me into it. But I do, if you need help coming up with topic ideas, or if you're having a brain fog moment like me, and I realize not everybody has that, but you could have brain fog from life with a baby or anything else going on. And so I do use it some for like the strategy piece and for like helping me pick. So I have a clawed skill and a custom GBT that will help me pitch. And it is again, it's that structure, it's like the forms that you guys are talking about. It's from all being in over 200 collaborations, I know what people need. And so that has really helped me be more strategic because sometimes I'll give like the AI tool a list of all of my resources, like what I sell, and it may pull out something that I forgot about. I'm like, oh yeah, that would be perfect. So definitely you can use it as some brain power. You don't have to overuse it, but I do think it is if you've got a lot going on or chronic illnesses like I do, sometimes I and it even calls my brain fog out like in a nice way. Like we laugh about it. It's like, okay, you and your brain foggy self. And it happens.

Speaker 3 52:45

Yeah, for sure. I love that. And just another tip, I I feel like I didn't know we'd talk so much about AI today, but I I do find like if you want it to sound more like you, it chat GPT and Claude both have an audio option. Just click that, just talk to it. Like, I'm literally like, hey, I need to reply to this email, clean this up a bit, right? And it can then formulate from you. And it is it is a distilled version of you, right? Like use these tools because you can talk faster than you can type. And as like someone who overuses her limbs and like sometimes just cannot type anymore, you know, using these tools can help you be that extra set of arms. And that I think the organization part of it, it's also very helpful. You know, we set up when I, you know, with Claude, I we created a timeline for my own collaboration where I was like, what do we need to get done on this day? And it visualizes it for you. So I think, you know, we just gotta roll with the times. And I think this is a powerful tool that can give us the confidence that we need to show up and to look collaboration ready. But I would just say, honestly, like you decide you're ready, you decide when you're ready. And I hope that listening to this episode, that not too much of it went over your head, that, you know, we didn't lose you in the weeds. And if we did, you want to keep listening because I promise you there's gonna be an episode that unpacks all of this. Whether it's like, what do I say in that actual pitch or how do I find easy collaboration ideas? And it is my goal to, you know, interview all of the panelists. So if we haven't had a solo interview yet, I would love, love, love to have you back so that we can talk more about you and your experience with collaborations. Like, I want to know the ins and out, you know, covering it from the pitch to the outcome. Like, walk me through the steps. And if y'all are listening and that's something that you want to know too, you want to get into the brains of these incredible women who are in business and growing through collaborations, that is why I started this platform. All right, so if anyone has any final words, just a quick little like, just just one little line of encouragement and know that if anyone wants to connect with anyone here, I've got links in the show notes and the post so you can find everyone. Yeah, anyone want to go first, Diane? And then we'll just quickly say our best.

Speaker 55:28

The first thing that came to my mind is to stop following the rules because I followed the rules for so long and it held me back, you know? And I think don't don't put every don't listen to just one expert and just do everything that one person says. Like I found success when I finally went, okay, but let's see what this other person says, and then this other person, and then you can kind of figure out what is the fit for you. That is the best way.

Speaker 3 56:02

So yeah. Thank you, Diane. Anyone want to go next? Sure.

Speaker 1 56:08

Um, I would say for anybody who wants to start collaborating and you have that small audience, like we talked about today, be okay. Like this is the time to start practicing and getting out there and being kind of bad on camera, in writing. However, you do things, you're gonna be bad before you get good. I'm sure if you go back and listen to my first podcast, it's absolutely terrible. Same thing with old videos I've done on Instagram and all the things. So let this be your time to like get all the kinks out while you're building your audience so that when you have a bigger audience, you're actually really polished and you've had a lot of practice.

Speaker 3 56:46

I would just quickly add to that, like when it looks terrible, it looks real. And you give the person who's watching or seeing or reading the confidence to say, hey, listen, this person's just being themselves 100%. You can make mistakes. It doesn't have to be some perfect studio. I think we then share that confidence. Heather, you're gonna say something.

Speaker 5 57:09

I was just gonna say, be yourself and let AI do the heavy lifting part, but keep yourself because being yourself is more important in this AI-driven world than anything. So you can mesh both worlds together.

Speaker 3 57:23

I love that. Leah?

Speaker 2 57:25

Yeah, I think I've said that what Haley was talking about many times. Like we're all gonna be stinky at the beginning. I'd rather be stinky in front of a small amount of people than be stinky in front of a lot of people. So take a lot of action when you're small, you have that grace of short memories and whatever. If anything gets weird. I I'll be honest, at the beginning of our story, we were um potty training and there were webinars and there were things I was doing, and it was like, pause, I gotta go wipe a butt. Like, this is real life. This and it endear it, you know, it's endearing to people. It's authentic, people love it, and you don't want like you you want to get all your reps in, right? When when things are small. So I completely agree with that. I would also challenge your thinking a little bit if you're small. Don't, if it's a good opportunity, if you know it's the right collaboration, it's the right audience, um, that this could really be helpful for you. Sometimes there's paid versions of collaborations where maybe you don't have the big list yet, but you can be added to the summit as a bonus speaker for $97 or $197. That might be a good way to build a list and you could potentially generate a lot more leads for that amount of money than if you were to put them into Facebook ads or something else. So I know that I've done many of those over the years. On top of that, like I do paid collaborations in Facebook groups all the time. I spend a lot of money in different collaborations because people have built an audience that I serve and I know that I've got a great way to connect with folks and I can really serve and and I can generate leads. And there's people that I work with and I paid a lot of money over the years, but I know that I get like a high-ticket client almost every month from their audience. So it's very, very worth it. So don't shy away from that. If you know your message, your you know everything is on point and you just need to reach people and your list is small, it's okay to put a few bucks behind it.

Speaker 3 59:24

Love that. Great advice. Kathleen, anything?

Speaker 4 59:28

I would say enjoy the process. I think early on I definitely did not enjoy the process.

Speaker 3 59:36

Tell us what really happened.

Speaker 4 59:40

I I I it it was just overwhelming to me what I wanted to do, what I thought it was going to do, and everything. It was just like, this is business. I just take it and run. Um, I don't want to do this. I just want to do this little thing. But enjoy the process um and find some business besties, somebody to support you. Because all the time your family may not understand what you're doing, but if you have some business besties who you can go and cry on their shoulder and be like, no one, not my oh, offer me, yep, that's that's life.

Speaker 3 1:00:14

I love that. Such incredible advice. So thank you so much, everyone. Thank you, Heather Ritchie. Thank you, Haley Rowe, thank you, Kathleen Thomas, thank you, Diane Foy, and thank you, Lee Ray Getz. You are all Leah, you're amazing. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Yeah, links are gonna be. Y'all, y'all know how to listen to podcasts. Go check the show notes. I'm on a mission to make a blog post for every episode. So all the links to connect with these incredible panelists will be there for you. I appreciate y'all showing up. Hit subscribe, keep listening, let's keep diving into collabs. Thank you so much, everyone. Thank nine. Thanks for tuning in to Hey Let's Collab. If you're looking to kickstart your collaboration game and land that dream partnership, check out heyletscollab.com and download the free collab scripts to get started.